I’ve been a bit quiet on the blogging front. Silent actually. But John Grant, a loquacious blogger, has got me going.
John interviewed me for his blog http://www.brandtarot.com/blog/?p=681 and already his piece on me has slid into the March archive - that’s how prolific he is. John is better known, and highly regarded, in advertising and marketing circles and author of The New Marketing Manifesto which was selected as one of the top 10 business books of 1999 and of After Image (Profile) named by Wikipedia in a list of the most popular business books in the world.
I worked with John some time back whilst he was still at St Luke’s Advertising (of which he wasa co-founder) - and he had the courage and imagination to let me loose on a marketing team of a big drinks company and free rein to create something that would be valuable to the process of new product development.
The piece of work that emerged stands out in both John’s and my mind as a high point in both our working experiences. Working with John and the St Luke’s team was fantastic and in one of the most exciting working environments I have yet experienced. The place was humming with creativity and possibility, and the open atmosphere that John helped to foster made my job so easy. The process was not only satsifying to me in creative terms, it also produced exceptional results and the marketing team was positively humming. And on top of that it was fun.
Over to John’s interview:
Interview with Claire Schrader (on ‘workshops’)
John Grant
From time to time all planners and consultants get asked to do ‘workshops’. I wonder how many have considered the origins of the workshop format in drama (eg improvisation) and dramatherapy? About 10 years ago Claire helped me with an innovation workshop for a team in a big drinks company to explore customer types, occasions and needs. And I can safely say it is still one of the most productive and mind expanding sessions I ever took part in (the one I did with the resident Big Brother psychiatrist in Oslo was a runner up, certainly winner of the best use of ’snow play’ category!!!) Given the aim of these ‘awaydays’ is to break free from normal business thinking I can heartily recommend exploring this. If anyone wants to follow up with Clare she’s at www.makingmoves.net/biz and www.makingmoves.net/bizAnyway we caught up recently and I took the opportunity to snag an interview for readers of this blog
Q1. what’s your background?
Ten years as a performer and playwright during which I discovered how to unlock my creativity through Viola Spolin and Keith Johnstone methods of improvisation. Worked for an Amercian barter company for a while then discovered dramatherapy which brought together two main interests for me - theatre and personal development. Set up Making Moves, and over ten years
(my life seems to go in ten’s) developed my own style of transformational theatre programmes and workshops using archetypes and myths as a catalyst for change.
Q2. how did you get into this?
A light bulb went off about a year ago when I realized that I had come to the end of a phase and had done everything I wanted to do in terms of exploring and healing people’s psyche’s. I wanted to take my work out into a bigger arena, from the inner into the outer, and funny enough the project I’d done with John all those years ago had always excited me. I went to the Women’s International Networking Global Leadership Forum where I ran a workshop around the Amazon archetype, the warrior women of Greek myth. It
went down a storm and seeded the whole idea for Amazon Power enabling women to reclaim and express their feminine power. I work with the context that the Amazons expressed a balance of masculine and feminine which is needed for women to flourish in the business culture. I got very excited about feminine leadership and its implications not only for women in business, but
for taking forward environmental concerns, and for enabling men and women to work together more effectively and harmoniously.
Q3. what are the aspects of your work you are most passionate about?
I suppose I am most passionate about passion, about waking people up to their passion and what lies untapped within them. When people truly operate from that place they are unstoppable and it’s fabulous what they can achieve. And when they express it through creativity and they find that “jewel” - be it an idea for a new product or project, or an awareness that’s going to transform a difficult situation, or in taking their organization to a whole new level or for women in claiming their feminine power expressing more of who they truly are - then that is really inspiring to me. It’s like watching a space ship take off.
Q4. can you describe a bit how you tend to work with groups, what you
actually do exactly?
What is most important is creating an environment in which people’s creativity can flow and magic can happen. So my first job is to establish a light hearted, informal atmosphere usually through a series of warm-up exercises that’ll get the group out of their heads and will open up creative potential. I work differently with every group so it varies hugely what I will do. But classically I will choose a myth, archetype or story that parallels the issues/challenges that the group is facing and we enact it in stages, with time to reflect on the discoveries and the application to the business. The myth provides a structure of beginning, middle and end and enables the issue/challenge to be worked through and resolved. As lots of people are freaked out at the idea of drama, so I like make the process so seamless and easy that they hardly notice they’re doing drama until suddenly they are. The process produces a huge amount of ideas and stimulation so it’s important to record them but not jump the gun - or the process can go into left brain and I want to keep people in right-brain so that they remain creatively receptive and not block anything out.
In many ways I don’t do very much. I set up a space where people have a free rein to be creative and make discoveries, and provide a structure in which they can reflect on those. I hold it together, observe and feel what’s going on underneath the surface and believe me that can be exhausting!
Q5. can you expand a bit upon archetypes, what they are and also how
you work with them?
Archetypes are blueprints, models or patterns that have been repeated throughout history and are as vital today as they were in ancient times. The fact that these patterns have been repeated so many times adds to their power and impact. Archetypes are operating all the time whether we like it or not. An example would be Aphrodite or Venus, the goddess of love. We see her everywhere as the beautiful, sensual woman in adverts, in divas and on film. She is compelling, desirable and sells product like wild fire - we all want a piece of her. Another example which is being enacted today by George Bush is the warrior who believes he has Right or God on his side, standing out against what the whole world is telling him. In the movies he always wins but both history and many myths show, this is not always so. So whilst archetypes can be very positive, their “shadow” aspects can be destructive,
and if a shadow archetype has you into its grip as it has I sense with George Bush, then you’re going to create havoc.
Archetypes can be expressed in a multitude of different ways and myth provides many different scenarios though which the archetype is expressed. There are those who have categorized archetypes into different types and this helps to get a handle on them but actually there are hundreds of different archetypes, and we see them constantly been played out in films, politics, the media and of course also in our own lives.
I would create a workshop giving planners and creatives an opportunity to explore these different stories as a stimulus for creating new ideas or uncovering a powerful emotional hook, or for gaining greater understanding of the way in which an archetype is being expressed within their organization.
The Golden Fleece is my favourite at the moment for organizations that are bullishly focused on being NO 1 in their industry (when they’re No 3 or 4) and ignoring the creative opportunities for growth that are much more in line with their values. The Golden Fleece is a huge archetype and we all have our Golden Fleece. Jason quests after the Golden Fleece because he believes it will bring him power and prestige and he is blind to the compromises and strategies that he must use to win it that actually take him far away from achieving his goal. He wins the battle but loses the war. Working with this story can enable the organization to see where they are
sabotaging themselves and find out what is their true Golden Fleece and start creating a strategy and direction that is really going to take their organization and brands forward.
Q6. how is working with companies adifferent from your other (personal
development) work?
In some ways there’s no real difference since many of the issues that individuals struggle with happen in companies - just on a larger scale. Indeed sometimes there is more madness within companies than outside them!
The difference lies in the intention and the language used. For instance individuals come to me because they want to be more creative and companies because they want to create exciting products or to develop their people.
It is of course very different in the respect that I am working with very different people - people in business are not hampered in the way some of my clients are, and as a result they can really fly with the material once they get a grasp of it. The hard work is getting them out of their heads enough to see the point and be open to what can emerge.
I enjoy the collaborative aspects of working with planners and consultants and I haven’t done much of that in my personal development work. It’s great to work with someone who can see the potential of this approach and can fly with it and afterwards help the client implement the ideas that surface.
Q7. are there key issues - eg creative breakthrough, integrating
values, thinking about audiences, building teams…?
(ie where your approach is especially valuable or relevant)
My approach can be powerful within all these areas, but I would say I can help most when the talking process has got stuck, or when planners/marketers want to spring board some new ideas. The beauty of working through creativity is that it by passes words and finds a truth or a resolution that is often very simple. People don’t have to agree. It can also save a lot of head banging and brain strain!
It can really help in team building because as well as enabling a team to bond, it can also work through conflicts and stuckness - funnily enough without a huge drama! Because we’re working with symbols and metaphor it doesn’t get personal and I’ve seen people who have major disagreements with each other come to respect each other’s differences and the agro just falls away.
Q8. what would be your absolute dream (business, marketing or
planning) project?
My absolute dream at the moment would be to work with jazzy companies like Virgin, Innocent or Orange and ad agencies like St Luke’s just because of working with that level of openness and imagination is so rewarding, and you know they’re going to make use of the ideas and creativity that emerge.
I would also love to be working with women’s archetypes, either on women’s product range or on empowering women who are operating at half their potential (and that goes for a lot of women).
I enjoy a creative challenge. And the Golden Fleece really speaks to me at the moment, so would love to work at the top level with a company who are losing their way or are struggling with their identity or just making their employees’ lives a misery.
I like variety and so would love to be approached by planners and marketers with a project and see in what way I can contribute. It is very satisfying to me when I find a myth that is absolutely right for a project and where that can lead.
Q9. lots of planners think about going into coaching and similar as a
second career, any advice for them?
There are powerful tools in dramatherapy and fantastic applications in business but as yet it’s a very new field. Most of the dramatherapy trainings are geared up towards working with people with mental health, learning difficulties etc so I think planners would find that a bit frustrating. But would be very happy to offer a workshop to planners interested in using these techniques.
Q10. what books, resources, courses etc, could people consult if they
wanted to know more?
Carol Pearson books are fantastic. Awakening the Heroes Within is almost my bible. Below are a list of her books, which I have by no means read all of. I have been told that her Brands book isn’t as good as the Hero book, but certainly she is the authority on working with archetypes. I also like The Hero’s Journey by Joseph Campbell, which are interview’s with him about his
work just before he died, and is much more readable than his books, of which he wrote many. Joseph Campbell really started all this and was the first person to really apply the relevance of mythology to contemporary life. The film industry in particular took up his ideas. “Star Wars” is a classic. I also really like Robert H Johnson’s books in which he focuses on a myth or archetype - very short but potent. Most of these books are not angled towards business but of definite interest and relevance to business.
Carol Pearson:
http://www.herowithin.com/models.html
The Hero Within: Six Archetypes We Live By (HarperSanFrancisco, 1986, 1989, 1998); Awakening the Heroes Within: Twelve Archetypes T hat Help Us Find Ourselves and Transform our World (HarperSanFrancisco, 1991); Magic At Work: Camelot, Creative Leadership and Everyday Miracles (DoubleDay, 1995); The Hero and the Outlaw: Building Extraordinary Brands Through The Power of Archetypes, co-authored by Margaret Mark (McGraw- Hill, 2001); Mapping the Organization Psyche: A Jungian Theory of Organizational Dynamics and Change, co-authored by John Corlett (CAPT: Center for Applications of Psychological Type, 2003); and the Pearson-Marr Archtype Indicator (PMAI), developed with Hugh Marr; and Organizational and Team Culture Indicator (OTCI) (both published by CAPT, 2003).